EPISODE 59 · MAKE YOUR THINKING CLEARER WITHOUT MAKING IT THINNER
Clear communication can still have substance. Explore how to help your audience reach a deeper understanding without overwhelming them or reducing your expertise to easy answers.
The Hidden Cost of Over-Explaining
IN THIS EPISODE
You want people to follow your ideas, but simplifying the message can feel uncomfortable when the subject has real depth. The useful challenge is to remove the obstacles in the explanation while keeping the reasoning, examples and meaning that help someone think more clearly about the problem.
In this episode, you’ll explore the balance between making an idea accessible and making it too thin. The conversation looks at gradual progression, stories, participation and audience feedback, with practical questions about how to adapt the same expertise for a keynote, workshop or written piece.
A simple explanation doesn’t have to avoid a difficult idea. You can use familiar words and a clear structure while still asking people to examine assumptions or consider a more demanding question. The distinction is between making the route easier to follow and removing so much of the thinking that there is little left to understand.
Review the role of each detail in your explanation. Some information may be essential to the idea, while other material is interesting mainly because you know the subject well. Keep what helps the audience grasp the reasoning and decide what belongs in a deeper discussion rather than trying to prove the full extent of your knowledge at once.
Once you understand where the audience is now, plan the path to the understanding you want them to reach. A clear framework can help you organise the main points and show how they connect. Each stage should prepare people for the next one, rather than requiring them to make a large jump without support.
You can introduce new material gradually as well. A fresh example or an additional application gives you a chance to see how the idea lands without replacing the whole structure at once. Use what you learn to refine the explanation, keeping the audience’s progress as the reason for the change.
A real situation can help someone understand an abstract method by showing what it looks like in use. Explain the problem, the response and the connection with the idea you are teaching. That gives your audience something concrete to work with when they consider how the same thinking might apply to them.
A story can also run through the presentation and return at useful points, helping people connect later ideas with an earlier explanation. Use that structure deliberately so the return adds understanding. Humour, a question or a simple drawing can support the same purpose when it helps the point land rather than distracting from it.
You will make better decisions about complexity when you know what the audience needs before you arrive. Speak with the organiser about the purpose of the session, the people attending and the situations they are dealing with. That gives you a more useful starting point than assuming a familiar presentation will suit every room.
During the session, look for signs of understanding and invite questions that reveal how people are interpreting the ideas. Silence alone doesn’t establish whether something is too easy or too difficult, so use several forms of feedback. A relevant question or practical example can help you decide where another explanation or more depth would be useful.
The amount of detail you include depends partly on the purpose of the format. A keynote may help people see an issue differently, while a workshop can give them time to explore and apply it. Be clear about what you are asking the audience to do with the message and choose the level of explanation that supports that outcome.
You can challenge people without leaving them feeling incapable of moving forward. Show the path from the problem to a practical next step, with enough support for them to understand how progress could begin. Your expertise becomes useful when they leave with stronger thinking and a direction they can act on.
Choose one complex idea and write the starting point, the understanding you want people to reach and the steps between them. Add a real example, then ask someone in the intended audience to explain the idea back and identify where the explanation needs work.
Clear communication removes confusion while keeping the meaning. Use accessible language and a useful structure without discarding the reasoning that makes the idea valuable.
Discussed from 01:54
Plan a progression from what the audience understands now to the next level. Give them the examples and explanations needed to make each step, rather than leaving a gap they must cross alone.
Discussed from 04:14
A real example shows how an idea works in a situation people can recognise. Connect the story directly with the principle so it supports understanding rather than becoming an unrelated diversion.
Discussed from 05:03
Prepare by learning about the audience, then invite questions and other feedback during delivery. Use several signals of understanding rather than treating a lack of questions as proof by itself.
Discussed from 10:44
Different formats can support different outcomes. Decide whether the session is introducing a perspective or helping people practise, then choose the explanation and participation around that purpose.
Discussed from 11:59
Help people recognise a useful direction and understand how they could begin moving towards it. The conversation explores challenging the audience while still leaving room for hope and progress.
Discussed from 14:06
PREFER TO READ?
Transcript from the episode recording, with speaker names added and paragraphs formatted for readability. Automated transcription may contain errors; the audio is the original record.
Brad Hauck 00:14
Welcome to The Experts Journey. Some experts simplify their message so people can follow it, and others simplify it so much that there's barely an idea left. In this episode, we're asking some sharp questions, such as, are you making your thinking clearer or are you quietly lowering the bar? Because your audience does not just need easy answers. Sometimes they need stronger thinking, better questions, and a higher standard. Should you simplify your thinking or raise your audience? So let's get into it. Good morning, Dixie.
Dixie Carlton 00:46
Good morning, Brad. What an interesting way to start the day. Fascinating conversation ahead, I'm sure.
Brad Hauck 00:53
Absolutely. So we talk about breaking things down and keeping it easy so everyone in the room can understand. And as it applies to any sort of expert content that we create. Where do we set the line that we're speaking to, talking to, writing to? And one of the things I was looking at was does simple mean shallow?
Dixie Carlton 01:15
Oh. Oh, what a great question. One of the things that comes to mind as soon as we start into this topic is the fact that we get bored with maybe is not maybe the right line, but we get so familiar with our own topic that sometimes we lose objectivity around this whole perspective. So is it that we worry that we're not coming across this smart enough and cutting edge enough and therefore we simplify it too much? So or do we complicate it so much that we are trying to just really appease our own ego rather than actually think about what the audience needs to hear?
Brad Hauck 01:54
Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a huge difference between making an idea clear and making it thin. You really want to get through, but that doesn't mean you've got to peel back everything off it. Good communication actually ref removes confusion without taking away the meaning of things. So we need to look at how we're communicating something to make it clear. We don't have to stay shallow. We can go deep, but we have to be clear.
Dixie Carlton 02:20
Yes. And where do you draw the line and how do you know if in fact your own topic is becoming too shallow or if you're thinning it down too much? How do we measure what it is that our audiences are getting out of us if we haven't taken a really big step back and assessed it from their perspective? And of course, the only real way to get that is feedback.
Brad Hauck 02:46
Yeah, feedback certainly helps. One of the things I think of is you want to bring in new topics and get people thinking, but it doesn't mean that you've actually got to go deep into the topic. Sometimes it's about exposing people to the topic, making sure that they understand that this thing is happening or that they need to be looking at this thing, but you don't have to delve into the depths of it, which I know some of us like to go down deep on things. And maybe that's the mistake. Just keep the content clear and bring new ideas, but don't drown people in.
Dixie Carlton 03:22
Well, I keep going back to my framework that I use when I'm developing either a book or a presentation or a workshop, where you've got three main points you want to make, and then you break those three main points down into chapters or subheadings and then subheadings or sub-subheadings. And I think if you're going to consider your main keynote or your main topic set and start bringing in new things and implementing additional parts and seeing how they land, rather than thinking, I'm going to recreate the whole half of this and experiment with it. I don't think you should be experimenting with your audience at that level.
I think if you're going to experiment with new topic or new content, that you need to bring it in gradually, which gets hard if you're not speaking on a regular basis, by the way.
Brad Hauck 04:14
Yeah, exactly. You've got to bring it in. And I think that probably brings me to my second point, which is that some audience actually need a bridge, not a lower bar. So it's a case of stepping our audience, building those steps to bring them to that new level of understanding. They might come in here, you want them to leave there. You don't just throw them in here because it's too much. You step them up to there. And you're talking about using your three points. That's one way we can do that. The real skill is knowing how to meet people where they are, but don't leave them there.
Bring them up.
Dixie Carlton 04:49
Yes. So how do you approach doing this from the perspective of someone who obviously you deal a lot with tech and complex content? How do you work your way through these issues?
Brad Hauck 05:03
I think the biggest thing I've learned to do is use real-world examples. So stories, in other words. So the stories of how this is applied in a real-world situation, normally for me, actually clarify it for somebody. So I can say, we've got this great tool and it does this and this, but this is how I use it to do this thing. And then people can bridge their way across and go, oh, I see how that fits in with what I do because I could use it like this.
Dixie Carlton 05:33
Yeah. And I think you're right. The value of stories cannot be underestimated. As I always say, stories make the facts sticky. And then if you could also use looping within the story framework of your presentation, so you start out with one part and then you loop it into where you finish and bring it back, or even thread that story so that it goes from A to B to C to D to E rather than thinking I'm going to go from A to H to P to G back to B, whatever. Using a really comprehensive but simple way of meandering your story through what you're trying to demonstrate means you bring the audience with you on a journey rather than thinking that you're just giving them a bunch of information.
Brad Hauck 06:21
Yeah, and that format, as you said, A, B, C, D, you were talking about stepping there, which is what you're trying to do. And the looping part for me is always hard because I forget where I was. But like it's a common thing. In comedy, it's one of the biggest parts of doing comedy is the loop back. You'll often see it on TV where they start telling a story and then it goes off for a while, and then suddenly they throw it back to the start, and you get this random comment, and you realize it's related to the earlier story.
Oh, they looped that back. That was very clever. I think that it's certainly a skill that can be learned, but yeah, for me, I often forget where I started, so it's not always helpful.
Dixie Carlton 06:59
But hey, you just brought up a great point and never underestimate the value of comedy and good comedy to help bring the really interesting parts of what you're trying to convey forward as well. And if you have the ability to do a bit of like comedy or make people laugh or bring them at an NLP level connection back to the points you're trying to make as well, then you get a lot better shot at helping those points to really stick fast.
Brad Hauck 07:29
No, absolutely. Look, so we're starting to step people through, but the next problem that I see people have is oversimplifying. And this is something that I've been known to do myself, where I take a complex topic and break it down to make it easier, but sometimes you can break it down too much and actually damages your authority. So if everything you say sounds too basic, people understand you, but they don't get your level of expertise. You need to be clear, but also show the weight behind your thinking. So making sure that you keep it simple in language, maybe, but not simple in concept.
And bringing people into that higher level thinking. Because, in the end, as we discussed last week, it's about taking people from where they are to make a change in their life to where they want to be. And you're there to help them do that. So if people come into the room and you're talking at too low a level for the room, then you're going to lose your audience, which is the worst thing you can possibly do.
Dixie Carlton 08:30
Well, one of the ways you can help yourself with that too, and this is just basic stagecraft, right? Where you can get the audience involvement, get them doing things, nodding their heads, or nod if you did this or hands up if you did that. And I did something the other day where I made everyone sit down or stand up and then sit down in in s in groups so that we got to a point and bring a little bit of humor into that. And so you get them physically participating in what you do, even if you you're trying to make a really complex point or a simple point, regardless of which end of the spectrum you're at, if you get them physically doing something, it helps the complexity to land or can bring the simplicity up.
The other thing you can do is using things like whiteboards or flip charts. And yes, you may have your PowerPoint, but maybe you need to occasionally break out with the big fat pen on a s on a white surface and say, well, let's write this, let's loop this back, shall we? Let's show how this works. Let's bring you through in the way that your PowerPoint can't, you bring your audience from point A to point B to point C and tie that into what you're doing with your PowerPoint. And so it's often it comes down to stagecraft.
Brad Hauck 09:49
Yeah, I think there's always going to be an element of stagecraft involved in everything like that. Whenever you're in front of people, it's not just a case of being in front of them. There needs to be more than that. It some people will stand there and they naturally are able to tell stories and do things. And other people will get up there and it'll be the most terrifying thing in the world because they're doing something out of the comfort zone. They might be an author, they're not a speaker. They're standing in front of a group of people and they have to read a page.
But if at least if you've got a plan, you've got some steps in place of how you're going to present your book or how you're going to present this topic, you've got some sort of framework to fall back on. And you can have it on a piece of paper in front of you, or you can write it on a flip chart or whatever. But certainly having some sort of plan in place before you start is always important because that allows you to have time to think as well, depending on how your audience is reacting to what you're doing.
Dixie Carlton 10:44
Yes, you're right. And sometimes you can also revert back to the audience and get their feedback as you're going by asking for questions. Like, is this landing? Are you with me? Do you have any questions about what I've just said? If you get no questions, then there's a chance that you are giving yourself feedback immediately on how simple you've got. So then maybe that's a good time to have in reserve, obviously, something that's more complex that you can pull in to just again take the audience's temperature in in the real time.
Brad Hauck 11:18
Yeah. And look, when you're looking at the content you're presenting, you also got to think about what you're trying to achieve with your audience. So if you give bite-sized pieces of information, easy answers and things like that, you're probably going to attract those people that just want quick answers. On the other hand, if you want to teach people to think deeper, maybe you need to start building in more insights and not just shortcuts. So while we're taking people through, we don't we don't want to be shallow, we want to be a certain amount of depth, but also we want to make sure that people are getting actual insights, they are getting learning and they are growing.
Dixie Carlton 11:59
I think you bring up an interesting perspective regarding that keynote versus workshop. A lot of what we've just been talking about is different between doing a keynote versus a workshop. If you're in a workshop situation, it's a lot easier to take the temperature of the room to then also bring in the extra heavy armory if you need it while you're in the workshop zone. If you're doing a keynote isn't about teaching people, it's about moving them from the space where they are to the space that they'd like to be. So inspiring them to consider what space they're currently inhabiting.
And to think when you're talking about a keynote, you have a different set of criteria for assessing whether or not the complexity is too high. And I think also when you're doing a keynote, if you've done a really great job of checking in with the people beforehand. For example, one of the guys in a presentation series the other day said he does a minimum of four interviews one-on-one with people before he turns up for the keynote. I thought, well, four, that's quite a lot. And we all talked about that in in the day. And he said, Yeah, four.
He said, I want to know from the CEO, and the CEO has to be part of that four. The CEO, the financial controller, the II, and then the marketing guy. And he said, because that will give me real perspective on where they're at and what they really need. And so I think if you're someone who tailors your presentations as a keynote deliverer to exactly whatever audience needs and you do the right homework, then you're not going to have the problem of is it too simple or is it too complex? But if you are going in and doing something that's more public or that you don't have the ability for whatever reason to do that level of homework first, then you are more likely to fly blind on that.
Brad Hauck 14:06
Yeah, absolutely. The best experts make the people in the room feel smarter, not smaller. And it's one of those things where you really want to raise your audience, you want to bring them up, but you don't want to make them feel like they're behind. Now, that's really difficult because if you're like me and you're talking about AI, most people feel behind, but you got to put it in a way that the room feels like, okay, I didn't realize this was happening, but I see the opportunity for me to move forward now because I know that.
And so you invite them into the better thinking. It's not about proving that you're smart because you're up there as the expert. That's not the goal at all. The goal is to show them that they can move to this point if they listen to you, if they take these next steps. And so you're trying to show them that they're actually capable of embracing this change or whatever it is. But they're not being left feeling like, oh, I'm in trouble. I'm never going to be able to move forward or my business is going to fail or whatever.
That's the worst. If you do that, you're definitely doing something wrong, I reckon.
Dixie Carlton 15:14
Well, you have to inspire hope.
Brad Hauck 15:16
Yeah. Always. And that's the key thing, isn't it? You don't want to leave the room desperate. You want to leave them uncomfortable. There's no doubt about that. You want people to be uncomfortable because only uncomfortable people change.
Dixie Carlton 15:29
Yeah.
Brad Hauck 15:30
But you don't want them to walk out of there and go, yeah, I'm going to go home and sit in the corner and cry.
Dixie Carlton 15:38
So there's a common line of thought that of the whole audience, there will be five or ten percent who will completely not love you, and there'll be five or ten percent who will become raving fans, and then there's the other, let's say, 80% who will be somewhere in the middle. So do you pitch for the people who are going to be somewhere in the middle, or do you pitch to really please that top 10% who are going to become raving fans? And do you consciously make a decision about that?
Brad Hauck 16:08
I think it comes back to what you said before, where you were talking about the person who interviews four people before they do the speech. More often than not, when you're brought in to do something, it's for a reason. The company, the group, the whoever is in the room has brought you in to present a certain message to get people to take a certain action. And so you need to understand that. Other times you get no direction at all. And so it's up to you to set the direction. But more often than not, you if you're speaking for corporate or whatever, there's a reason you're there.
So I think it really comes down to understanding that more so than anything else.
Dixie Carlton 16:48
Yeah. You know, you're right. So do you please the CEO or do you please the person who books you? The person who pays the check? Yeah. Who do you want to be focusing on as your avatar in the room to please the best?
Brad Hauck 17:04
I think that's a good question. I was always told that you're there to please the speaker booker, but I don't think that's the answer truly, because the speaker booker should be there trying to please the person who got them to do the job. So if the CEO's come in and said, we need a speaker that does this and this, or we want to bring in an author who talks about this, then that speaker booker should be trying to hit that goal. And so, yes, your goal is to make the speaker booker look good, but the speaker booker is supposed to be making the sure the CEO's messaging or mission is covered by the person that they bring in.
So that's why I look at it anyway.
Dixie Carlton 17:43
Yeah. So top tips for thinking how do you make this yeah, happen for following through on this conversation that we've just had. What are your top tips on fitting it right?
Brad Hauck 17:56
I think the first is understand who you're speaking to and what they're after. That's essential if you're going to go up and speak about a topic, get an understanding of who's in the room and what they're after. That's probably the key thing first. Second is then trying to establish a level that they're already at. What are they already doing? What are they succeeding and where they're having troubles? So that's an interview process, like anything. And then it's a case of going, okay, they're here, they want to be there. What are the steps? You're the expert.
You should be able to see the steps. You should know what the steps are. And then breaking them down into a way that relates to the audience that they can understand in their language, that succeeds in hitting the goal of the conference.
Dixie Carlton 18:41
Yeah. And I would add to that, do the feedback loop, make sure that you are checking visually with the audience while you're presenting as best you can, in whatever way you can, either by doing the either any questions, raise your hands if there's none, then you know you're possibly going in a little too sh too thin. And also to uh drip feed the new stuff, the things that you're a little bit unsure of, but you're ready with if you need to have it as part of your toolkit.
Brad Hauck 19:10
Yeah, I think this it applies to all of the content you create, whether it's a speech, a book, uh, an article, whatever. There should be some underlying message you're trying to get across. For example, when I talk about AI, I say the embers are already in your business. There's AI appearing everywhere. And even if you're trying to ignore it, it's in every piece of software. So you need to do this, and that's the underlying message, is that you have to do something. And so that try I try to bring that through in all my content, whether it's an article or whatever.
Now, whether the article's about communication or software or whatever, it doesn't matter. That theme's coming through. So you should always be looking at how you can keep it simple, keep people moving forward while bringing through the goal message overall.
Dixie Carlton 19:56
Yeah, brilliant. Well, I think we've given everyone a lot to think about this morning for sure.
Brad Hauck 20:02
Yeah, absolutely. So if this episode has you thinking about writing a book, but you're not sure how to shape your ideas, reach out to Dixie at indiexpertspublishing.com. She can help turn what's in your head into a clear, compelling book that builds real authority. And if you want to get more out of AI automation, join my authority multiplier coaching community at bradhauck.com. You'll learn how to use AI to grow your business and save time and money. Don't leave your best thinking sitting in your head. Take action and turn it into something.
Dixie Carlton 20:31
Love it. Well, once again, another week of fascinating conversation. And of course, if you've really enjoyed this, remember to leave us a review because they always matter and count well for us too. So thanks everyone. And uh we'll catch you next time, Wraith.
Brad Hauck 20:44
See you next time.
YOUR HOSTS
Brad HauckAI & digital marketingAuthor, international speaker and digital marketer helping experts build authority online.
Dixie CarltonPublishing & authorshipAuthor, speaker and publishing expert connecting books, marketing and professional speaking.
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